Comments on: Tax abatements – So easy a caveman can do it http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/ Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:51:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: tim zank http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21387 tim zank Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:47:47 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21387 You know folks, I don't have a dog in this fight, but being in the real estate biz, I have an affinity for pro-growth projects of all kinds and I really hope this works out for Ft Wayne, but it sure does seem like you are putting a lot of eggs in one basket. That can be a risky situation if your local tax base is holding a big part of the speculative risk as opposed to say, venture capitalists or institutional investors. It's been my experience, average ol' taxpayers get pretty yanked out shape when they end holding the bag, so to speak. I wish you luck! You know folks, I don’t have a dog in this fight, but being in the real estate biz, I have an affinity for pro-growth projects of all kinds and I really hope this works out for Ft Wayne, but it sure does seem like you are putting a lot of eggs in one basket. That can be a risky situation if your local tax base is holding a big part of the speculative risk as opposed to say, venture capitalists or institutional investors. It’s been my experience, average ol’ taxpayers get pretty yanked out shape when they end holding the bag, so to speak.

I wish you luck!

]]> By: Sam T. http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21375 Sam T. Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:35:54 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21375 Squarefinger, Can you read? Did you see my previous posts in which I said that the brain drain comment was anecdotal and I never claimed to have documented evidence? The Downtown Arena "Defeat". The Downtown Arena debate was a resounding victory leading almost directly to a newly invigorated County Council, and leading indirectly to the Harrison Square Development. Nice Analysis Squarefinger. Squarefinger, Can you read? Did you see my previous posts in which I said that the brain drain comment was anecdotal and I never claimed to have documented evidence?

The Downtown Arena “Defeat”. The Downtown Arena debate was a resounding victory leading almost directly to a newly invigorated County Council, and leading indirectly to the Harrison Square Development. Nice Analysis Squarefinger.

]]> By: Squarefinger http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21373 Squarefinger Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:17:51 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21373 Sam, "The Harrison Square development will entice companies to retain and attract jobs to the area. Harrison Square is already having a positive impact on our community’s brain drain." Where is the evidence that supports this claim? The David Corcoran argument was at best great theater when made, but hardly a compelling argument for a $160M taxpayer funded givaway to local developers, attorneys, and of course, the City's newest partners, Hardball Captal. Here are some facts you can check, bids on the project are coming in over budget. I know you never recovered from the Downtown Arena defeat, was your Harrison Square vote just a way of getting even? So much for doing what's right for "my City". You can't think people are buying that stuff, can you? Sam,

“The Harrison Square development will entice companies to retain and attract jobs to the area. Harrison Square is already having a positive impact on our community’s brain drain.”

Where is the evidence that supports this claim? The David Corcoran argument was at best great theater when made, but hardly a compelling argument for a $160M taxpayer funded givaway to local developers, attorneys, and of course, the City’s newest partners, Hardball Captal.

Here are some facts you can check, bids on the project are coming in over budget.

I know you never recovered from the Downtown Arena defeat, was your Harrison Square vote just a way of getting even? So much for doing what’s right for “my City”. You can’t think people are buying that stuff, can you?

]]> By: Mike Harvey http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21267 Mike Harvey Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:15:02 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21267 At the Harrison Square vote Sam brought up that he talked to a guy living in Washington D.C. that was excited about these new developments in Fort Wayne. That person is probably the anonymous entity known as "Park or Die" from the Change FW blog as I remember reading something about that on that blog at that time... specifically, that he was was from Washington D.C. and excited about the H.S. doings. From my experience moves are mostly made because of jobs. Secondly, there is a younger crowd that does move because of climate. Those, more often, come back... At the Harrison Square vote Sam brought up that he talked to a guy living in Washington D.C. that was excited about these new developments in Fort Wayne. That person is probably the anonymous entity known as “Park or Die” from the Change FW blog as I remember reading something about that on that blog at that time… specifically, that he was was from Washington D.C. and excited about the H.S. doings.

From my experience moves are mostly made because of jobs. Secondly, there is a younger crowd that does move because of climate. Those, more often, come back…

]]> By: Sam T. http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21246 Sam T. Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:02:42 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21246 Dan, because I am referencing personal anecdotes that I have experienced. It would not be appropriate for me to lay them out on a blog. Dan, because I am referencing personal anecdotes that I have experienced. It would not be appropriate for me to lay them out on a blog.

]]> By: Dan http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21237 Dan Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:32:20 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21237 Sam, Why wouldn't you want to back up your argument here? Sam,

Why wouldn’t you want to back up your argument here?

]]> By: Sam T. http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21230 Sam T. Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:20:48 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21230 Jeff, by the way, feel free to call me and I will give you specific examples on the brain drain which I do not want to post on a blog. Numbers in the phone book. Jeff, by the way, feel free to call me and I will give you specific examples on the brain drain which I do not want to post on a blog. Numbers in the phone book.

]]> By: Sam T. http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21229 Sam T. Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:18:50 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21229 Jeff, re: brain drain issue. Just my opinion based on anecdotal evidence that I have seen. Such as some young professionals specifically telling me that they are now interested in coming back to fort wayne based on the exciting developments downtown. You are correct, nothing reliable or measurable at this point. FW Conservative. I cant argue with you on your points, because you are so off based. Fort Wayne's future success will NOT be based on returning to the glory days of manufacturing. Fort Wayne must change with the times. P.S. Please tell me how our Mayor is overpaid? He makes less than the director of our Library and less than the manager of the Coliseum, and you think he is Overpaid??!! Jeff, re: brain drain issue. Just my opinion based on anecdotal evidence that I have seen. Such as some young professionals specifically telling me that they are now interested in coming back to fort wayne based on the exciting developments downtown. You are correct, nothing reliable or measurable at this point.

FW Conservative. I cant argue with you on your points, because you are so off based. Fort Wayne’s future success will NOT be based on returning to the glory days of manufacturing. Fort Wayne must change with the times.

P.S. Please tell me how our Mayor is overpaid? He makes less than the director of our Library and less than the manager of the Coliseum, and you think he is Overpaid??!!

]]> By: Charlotte A. Weybright http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21178 Charlotte A. Weybright Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:14:49 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21178 I think there is enough blame to go around. After all, didn't the Republicans on the council - with the exception of Mitch Harper - vote for the abatement also? Both sides are supposed to represent certain values. Republicans - conservative fiscal values which apparently they also forgot about. Tax abatements are getting out of hand. The council gave them to fast food restaurants and now to those who can afford to buy the condos. Weren't the condos already purchased? Why back up and give an abatement that isn't necessary - unless the condos were purchased with that understanding. I think there is enough blame to go around. After all, didn’t the Republicans on the council – with the exception of Mitch Harper – vote for the abatement also?

Both sides are supposed to represent certain values. Republicans – conservative fiscal values which apparently they also forgot about.

Tax abatements are getting out of hand. The council gave them to fast food restaurants and now to those who can afford to buy the condos. Weren’t the condos already purchased? Why back up and give an abatement that isn’t necessary – unless the condos were purchased with that understanding.

]]> By: gadfly http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21174 gadfly Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:39:30 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21174 Somehow some people have forgotten that reducing the tax burden of some taxpayers by government fiat increases the burden on all other taxed entities. Somehow it has been forgotten that we, the taxpayers of Fort Wayne, have already had our money doled out to pay for land and stand to pay out more when the new Marriott fails to make money and when Hardball Capital folds its tent after a short stay in Fort Wayne. Folks, we are guaranteeing the bond. Somehow someone is forgetting that deposits have already been collected for most of the condos without a tax incentive. Go figure. Tax incentives should only be paid when and if new jobs are created ...and the last time I checked home servants for a few condos would not make much of a dent in the $2 million giveaway. Somehow some people have forgotten that reducing the tax burden of some taxpayers by government fiat increases the burden on all other taxed entities.

Somehow it has been forgotten that we, the taxpayers of Fort Wayne, have already had our money doled out to pay for land and stand to pay out more when the new Marriott fails to make money and when Hardball Capital folds its tent after a short stay in Fort Wayne. Folks, we are guaranteeing the bond.

Somehow someone is forgetting that deposits have already been collected for most of the condos without a tax incentive. Go figure. Tax incentives should only be paid when and if new jobs are created …and the last time I checked home servants for a few condos would not make much of a dent in the $2 million giveaway.

]]> By: Kevin Knuth http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21164 Kevin Knuth Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:19:53 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21164 FW Conservative- You are not comparing apples to apples. However, I am humored by your statement- "The democrats are supposed to be the defender of the little people, the poor and down trodden." So you admit that the GOP doesn't give a damn about anybody but the rich? FW Conservative-

You are not comparing apples to apples.

However, I am humored by your statement- “The democrats are supposed to be the defender of the little people, the poor and down trodden.”

So you admit that the GOP doesn’t give a damn about anybody but the rich?

]]> By: Jeff http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21162 Jeff Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:02:14 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21162 Sam T. -- Could you explain your statement about how HS is already having a positive impact on our community's brain drain? I would think that nearly an unmeasurable number. I'm not sure how a big hole in downtown is already having a positive impact, so I look forward to your answer. Sam T. — Could you explain your statement about how HS is already having a positive impact on our community’s brain drain? I would think that nearly an unmeasurable number. I’m not sure how a big hole in downtown is already having a positive impact, so I look forward to your answer.

]]> By: Jeff Pruitt http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21161 Jeff Pruitt Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:59:27 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21161 FW Conservative, That Democratic outrage was on display last night as I spoke against this abatement TWICE and declared that giving tax abatements to people that can afford $300K condos is a travesty... Bob, Thanks for the post but the original commenter on this thread was a different "Jeff". I always post with my first and last name... FW Conservative,

That Democratic outrage was on display last night as I spoke against this abatement TWICE and declared that giving tax abatements to people that can afford $300K condos is a travesty…

Bob,
Thanks for the post but the original commenter on this thread was a different “Jeff”. I always post with my first and last name…

]]> By: bull http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2008/02/27/tax-abatements-so-easy-a-caveman-can-do-it/comment-page-1/#comment-21160 bull Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:59:00 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2008/02/27/get-yer-hot-dogs/#comment-21160 Hey, Don't you all get it! People like SammyT., don't gave a damm about Ft.Crime, as long as they get there's!!! Hey, Don’t you all get it! People like SammyT., don’t gave a damm about Ft.Crime, as long as they get there’s!!!

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