Comments on: Fruit of the Poisonous Tree http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/ Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:51:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Squarefinger http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15998 Squarefinger Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:49:13 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15998 Phil, I think the anaology given in the article by the attorney is EXACTLY on point. Trying to force fit one of your own lame examples to prove your bogus point, 'aint workin'. I don't think someone like John Tippmann, or John Popp, or Fred Rost for that matter would support Kelty if they thought for a moment he had done something wrong or illegal. I for one agree with John Popp when he said, "The claims that Matt violated the election finance law are more political than real, and I am confident he will be cleared - “the sooner the better.”" Or better yet you have to believe Tom Henry who said Kelty was,"... innocent until proved guilty and voters should take that into account", and "he believes his opponent is honorable". That's more support from a Democrat than Kelty's received from some Republicans. Go figure. Phil,

I think the anaology given in the article by the attorney is EXACTLY on point. Trying to force fit one of your own lame examples to prove your bogus point, ‘aint workin’.

I don’t think someone like John Tippmann, or John Popp, or Fred Rost for that matter would support Kelty if they thought for a moment he had done something wrong or illegal. I for one agree with John Popp when he said, “The claims that Matt violated the election finance law are more political than real, and I am confident he will be cleared – “the sooner the better.””

Or better yet you have to believe Tom Henry who said Kelty was,”… innocent until proved guilty and voters should take that into account”, and “he believes his opponent is honorable”.

That’s more support from a Democrat than Kelty’s received from some Republicans. Go figure.

]]> By: squarefinger http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15985 squarefinger Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:10:29 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15985 Bravo Jim! You are right about fair weather friends, they are all supporting Henry. How can you trust them after this? Bravo Jim!

You are right about fair weather friends, they are all supporting Henry.

How can you trust them after this?

]]> By: Jim http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15974 Jim Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:55:20 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15974 Phil, "whitebread richies?" Where do you get this stuff, out of a 1970's era Black Panther manual? I happen to support Matt Kelty, and will after the election is over regardless of the outcome. Yes, I happen to be white... however not rich by any stretch of the imagination. Probably like you, I work daily for a paycheck, and I pay close attention to where it goes. It is for that reason that I oppose any government that confiscates my assets without recourse and spends them foolishly while ignoring the will of a significant majority of taxpayers. There is an entire cottage industry of people who are "plugged in" to the flow of municipal funds, and those people are getting rich off of it. (Untold millions will be spent on Harrison Square, with a huge chunk of that money going to developers, consultants, attorneys, and other people conveniently found on the list of Tom Henry's campaign contributors. Wait until you see who's lining up at the trough for some of the North River hog roast.) It is the people who comprise that cottage industry on both sides of the Republican-Democrat divide who have made an apparently successful effort to pump disinformation into the minds of those predisposed to hate someone because he is a conservative Republican. On Wednesday, Nov. 7, I will contact Matt Kelty and offer to help him in any way I can, whether it be contributing some of my hard-earned money to his campaign for repayment of the loans for which he bears personal responsibility, or helping him move his things into the Mayor's office, which he should rightly occupy. We contribute to a campaign because we believe in the innate goodness of the candidate, and not because he's leading in the pre-election polls. The people who do the latter are fair-weather friends at best, and you won't find many of those in the Kelty campaign. Phil,
“whitebread richies?” Where do you get this stuff, out of a 1970′s era Black Panther manual? I happen to support Matt Kelty, and will after the election is over regardless of the outcome. Yes, I happen to be white… however not rich by any stretch of the imagination. Probably like you, I work daily for a paycheck, and I pay close attention to where it goes. It is for that reason that I oppose any government that confiscates my assets without recourse and spends them foolishly while ignoring the will of a significant majority of taxpayers. There is an entire cottage industry of people who are “plugged in” to the flow of municipal funds, and those people are getting rich off of it. (Untold millions will be spent on Harrison Square, with a huge chunk of that money going to developers, consultants, attorneys, and other people conveniently found on the list of Tom Henry’s campaign contributors. Wait until you see who’s lining up at the trough for some of the North River hog roast.) It is the people who comprise that cottage industry on both sides of the Republican-Democrat divide who have made an apparently successful effort to pump disinformation into the minds of those predisposed to hate someone because he is a conservative Republican. On Wednesday, Nov. 7, I will contact Matt Kelty and offer to help him in any way I can, whether it be contributing some of my hard-earned money to his campaign for repayment of the loans for which he bears personal responsibility, or helping him move his things into the Mayor’s office, which he should rightly occupy. We contribute to a campaign because we believe in the innate goodness of the candidate, and not because he’s leading in the pre-election polls. The people who do the latter are fair-weather friends at best, and you won’t find many of those in the Kelty campaign.

]]> By: Ken Stocker http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15970 Ken Stocker Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:46:01 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15970 Phil, I really think you need to go back and listen to what Tom Henry had to say about "innocent 'till proven guilty". I also think you need to look at how you structure your analogies. Just because a vote falls along party lines does not negate the validity or the legal standing of the ruling. If so, every time a vote in congress went along party line, it would have to be thrown out. And the "man", was found innocent, not guilty. Ken Phil,
I really think you need to go back and listen to what Tom Henry had to say about “innocent ’till proven guilty”. I also think you need to look at how you structure your analogies. Just because a vote falls along party lines does not negate the validity or the legal standing of the ruling. If so, every time a vote in congress went along party line, it would have to be thrown out. And the “man”, was found innocent, not guilty.

Ken

]]> By: J. Q. Taxpayer http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15968 J. Q. Taxpayer Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:36:15 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15968 DNC "–According to a source, shortly after the primary election, Prosecutor Richards implored Police Chief Rusty York to initiate an investigation into the Kelty campaign, he refused.–" If I was Chief York I would have told Richards to take a hike, if she did such a deed. I would have told her, "Ms. Richards, you have the Allen County Sheriff and the Indiana State Police that you can take your request to. But you want me, a Democrat, to do your bidding. I think not. Have a good day!" Of course one has to first believe that she even made such a request. Also, she would know that if she would make such a request it would come out at some time she requested such. My guess, she would have used some other person to do her bidding. But it does make for interesting point to kick around. DNC

“–According to a source, shortly after the primary election, Prosecutor Richards implored Police Chief Rusty York to initiate an investigation into the Kelty campaign, he refused.–”
If I was Chief York I would have told Richards to take a hike, if she did such a deed. I would have told her, “Ms. Richards, you have the Allen County Sheriff and the Indiana State Police that you can take your request to. But you want me, a Democrat, to do your bidding. I think not. Have a good day!”

Of course one has to first believe that she even made such a request. Also, she would know that if she would make such a request it would come out at some time she requested such. My guess, she would have used some other person to do her bidding.

But it does make for interesting point to kick around.

]]> By: DNC http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15967 DNC Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:09:14 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15967 --According to a source, shortly after the primary election, Prosecutor Richards implored Police Chief Rusty York to initiate an investigation into the Kelty campaign, he refused.-- Having dealt with Chief York in a work environment, I have held a high level of respect for this man! While I know there has been a level of frustration from time to time in the department, as well as alledged hand-holding between Richards and York, this is given me a new level of respect. York may not be the greatest police chief, and he may have alterior motives for being behind Henry, but he seems to have held the higher road and did not take Matt down! I am not sure what his motives were, but if they done with a good intention, I am greatful! It should be noted that I am aware of numerous Police Officers who are standing behind Matt come this election day! Maybe that factor would have divided the Police Force! –According to a source, shortly after the primary election, Prosecutor Richards implored Police Chief Rusty York to initiate an investigation into the Kelty campaign, he refused.–

Having dealt with Chief York in a work environment, I have held a high level of respect for this man! While I know there has been a level of frustration from time to time in the department, as well as alledged hand-holding between Richards and York, this is given me a new level of respect. York may not be the greatest police chief, and he may have alterior motives for being behind Henry, but he seems to have held the higher road and did not take Matt down! I am not sure what his motives were, but if they done with a good intention, I am greatful!

It should be noted that I am aware of numerous Police Officers who are standing behind Matt come this election day! Maybe that factor would have divided the Police Force!

]]> By: Bob G. http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15966 Bob G. Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:01:58 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15966 Looks like Dan's been correct in his assessment of this mayoral "race" all along. And more people are "getting it" as well. Nice job (good comments). B.G. (pithy as usual) Looks like Dan’s been correct in his assessment of this mayoral “race” all along.
And more people are “getting it” as well.

Nice job (good comments).

B.G.
(pithy as usual)

]]> By: Dan http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15964 Dan Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:32:08 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15964 To the person commenting using the handle ZZZZZ. I have sent you an email, once I get a response your comments will appear. To the person commenting using the handle ZZZZZ.

I have sent you an email, once I get a response your comments will appear.

]]> By: Phil Henry http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15961 Phil Henry Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:18:10 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15961 <p>The election board voted on party lines not to forward to prosecution. No surprise there. That's like saying because a black man is found guilty that should be the end of the discussion. Even if the jury were all members of the Ku Klux Klan. </p> <p>That's like saying since the Blackwater guards were offered immunity from the Bush administration there should be no investigation of the execution of 17 innocent Iraqis. Political motivation, it seems, is okay as long as it's used to cover up crimes for republican's sake, but it is not good when it simply seeks to resolve questionable behavior. What Kelty did may or may not have been illegal, but he lied about it afterward- giving a black eye to himself and the GOP. Questionable behavior that is so close to the legal fine line that an investigation must take place. That's just despicable. Please let the justice system perform its function. Or should the rule of law, too, be under the control of the "private sector?"</p> The election board voted on party lines not to forward to prosecution. No surprise there. That’s like saying because a black man is found guilty that should be the end of the discussion. Even if the jury were all members of the Ku Klux Klan.

That’s like saying since the Blackwater guards were offered immunity from the Bush administration there should be no investigation of the execution of 17 innocent Iraqis. Political motivation, it seems, is okay as long as it’s used to cover up crimes for republican’s sake, but it is not good when it simply seeks to resolve questionable behavior. What Kelty did may or may not have been illegal, but he lied about it afterward- giving a black eye to himself and the GOP. Questionable behavior that is so close to the legal fine line that an investigation must take place. That’s just despicable. Please let the justice system perform its function. Or should the rule of law, too, be under the control of the “private sector?”

]]> By: Phil Henry http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15960 Phil Henry Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:44:02 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15960 <p>Ms. Popp, how much $$$ have you given Kelty? Is it right to BUY an election? Are you embittered by the fact that the tens of thousands of dollars donated by the Popp family will have been utterly wasted on a losing campaign? I wonder if Kelty will ever pay back Rost for that"loan."<br /> Times are tough in the Kelty camp we can tell. Will the 5 or 6 whitebread richies still carry Matt's banner after he loses? I doubt it. Better hurry up and get out that checkbook time's running out! The funny thing is, if this is a political witchhunt then what does it say that someone's railroaded by their own party? Because the dems definitely weren't behind this one. If you guys wanted to buy an election, you should have gotten the BIG money from Don Willis who I know could afford it!</p> Ms. Popp, how much $$$ have you given Kelty? Is it right to BUY an election? Are you embittered by the fact that the tens of thousands of dollars donated by the Popp family will have been utterly wasted on a losing campaign? I wonder if Kelty will ever pay back Rost for that”loan.”
Times are tough in the Kelty camp we can tell. Will the 5 or 6 whitebread richies still carry Matt’s banner after he loses? I doubt it. Better hurry up and get out that checkbook time’s running out! The funny thing is, if this is a political witchhunt then what does it say that someone’s railroaded by their own party? Because the dems definitely weren’t behind this one. If you guys wanted to buy an election, you should have gotten the BIG money from Don Willis who I know could afford it!

]]> By: Raced White Male http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15957 Raced White Male Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:14:19 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15957 ><i>Fort Wayne appears to have an affinity for circuses.</i> Don't forget bread. (Sunbeam!) Bread and circuses. >Fort Wayne appears to have an affinity for circuses.

Don’t forget bread. (Sunbeam!)

Bread and circuses.

]]> By: Ken Stocker http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15955 Ken Stocker Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:59:21 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15955 FWA anonymous Perhaps one of the reasons we have not brought up the due process until now is that us blogger types didn't fully make the connection to the phrase "due process". We have been harping since June over the way the indictments came about. But what has changed is that the motion to dismiss is now public and we have had a chance to read it. The lawyers who put it together finally spelled it out for us, and once that occurred, it clicked in our brains and we had a "duh" moment. I'm not saying everyone missed it, I'm sure the Kelty team didn't, but they had some special channels they had to follow because it was a legal matter. And those that put the plan together were most likely aware of it, but a political tool is a political tool. Franklin D. Roosevelt once said "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way." I believe him. Ken FWA anonymous
Perhaps one of the reasons we have not brought up the due process until now is that us blogger types didn’t fully make the connection to the phrase “due process”. We have been harping since June over the way the indictments came about. But what has changed is that the motion to dismiss is now public and we have had a chance to read it. The lawyers who put it together finally spelled it out for us, and once that occurred, it clicked in our brains and we had a “duh” moment. I’m not saying everyone missed it, I’m sure the Kelty team didn’t, but they had some special channels they had to follow because it was a legal matter. And those that put the plan together were most likely aware of it, but a political tool is a political tool. Franklin D. Roosevelt once said “In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way.” I believe him.

Ken

]]> By: Carol Popp http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15952 Carol Popp Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:42:20 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15952 FWA.... Matt Kelty is our family's choice for mayor because we are unhappy with the way our city is moving. We support downtown revitalization, but not THIS way. We would like them to fix the sewer problem, clean up the rivers, and develop the rivers. That should have been numero UNO. Have you ever been to places like San Antonio and the Riverwalk down there? It's awesome. But this 2nd baseball stadium? Give me a break. Government run, taxpayer subsidized projects that benefit outside investment companies I DO NOT SUPPORT. A streamlined city government that minds the taxpayer dollars is what I want. Those are the issues I am voting on. Not whether Matt's responsible for the cake, or the tv ad or a zogby poll that I easily could have commissioned without Matt knowing it. When you find a candidate who's never made a campaign mistake, let me know. The newspapers have blown these silly stories out of the water, and unfortunately, folks have fallen for it. FWA….
Matt Kelty is our family’s choice for mayor because we are unhappy with the way our city is moving. We support downtown revitalization, but not THIS way. We would like them to fix the sewer problem, clean up the rivers, and develop the rivers. That should have been numero UNO. Have you ever been to places like San Antonio and the Riverwalk down there? It’s awesome.

But this 2nd baseball stadium? Give me a break. Government run, taxpayer subsidized projects that benefit outside investment companies I DO NOT SUPPORT. A streamlined city government that minds the taxpayer dollars is what I want. Those are the issues I am voting on.

Not whether Matt’s responsible for the cake, or the tv ad or a zogby poll that I easily could have commissioned without Matt knowing it.

When you find a candidate who’s never made a campaign mistake, let me know. The newspapers have blown these silly stories out of the water, and unfortunately, folks have fallen for it.

]]> By: shoeginmachine http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-15949 shoeginmachine Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:03:39 +0000 http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2007/10/30/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/#comment-15949 FWA, Who are we to know if the Administrative complaint issue was not filed or argued. The problem is, that it must be argued before the same courts that are spear heading the current issues before them. A court, a judge and a prosecutor are not going to admit they are wrong. As I said before, there are compelling arguments in the complaint. I believe due process was one of them, but Judge Gull has to make a decision first on whether she feels it is right. Her only motivation for making the right decision in this case is that if she makes a wrong decision purely for political reasons, it will be overturned in a higher court and her "political" career would be ruined in the process. The thing that surprises me to this point is we have not gotten our October surprise. Is it possible we hear from the court on Halloween? If not Halloween then before the election? I would not be surprised if we hear something, but who knows what we will hear. As for holding Karen Richards accountable...only the voters can do that in two years unless someone can prove prosecutorial misconduct and then I believe only the State Attorney General can step in and bring charges. FWA,

Who are we to know if the Administrative complaint issue was not filed or argued. The problem is, that it must be argued before the same courts that are spear heading the current issues before them. A court, a judge and a prosecutor are not going to admit they are wrong.

As I said before, there are compelling arguments in the complaint. I believe due process was one of them, but Judge Gull has to make a decision first on whether she feels it is right. Her only motivation for making the right decision in this case is that if she makes a wrong decision purely for political reasons, it will be overturned in a higher court and her “political” career would be ruined in the process.

The thing that surprises me to this point is we have not gotten our October surprise. Is it possible we hear from the court on Halloween? If not Halloween then before the election? I would not be surprised if we hear something, but who knows what we will hear.

As for holding Karen Richards accountable…only the voters can do that in two years unless someone can prove prosecutorial misconduct and then I believe only the State Attorney General can step in and bring charges.

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